NEW YORK (AP) 鈥� A moment from years ago keeps replaying in 鈥檚 mind.
When Akira Kurosawa was given an honorary Academy Award in 1990, the then 80-year-old Japanese filmmaker of 鈥淪even Samurai鈥� and 鈥淚kiru,鈥� said he hadn鈥檛 yet grasped the full essence of cinema.
It struck Scorsese, then in post-production on 鈥淕oodfellas,鈥� as a curious thing for such a master filmmaker to say. It wasn鈥檛 until Scorsese also turned 80 that he began to comprehend Kurosawa's words. Even now, Scorsese says he鈥檚 just realizing the possibilities of cinema.
鈥淚鈥檝e lived long enough to be his age and I think I understand now,鈥� Scorsese said in a recent interview. 鈥淏ecause there is no limit. The limit is in yourself. These are just tools, the lights and the camera and that stuff. How much further can you explore who you are?鈥�
Scorsese鈥檚 lifelong exploration has seemingly only grown deeper and more self-examining with time. In recent years, his films have swelled in scale and ambition as he鈥檚 plumbed the nature of faith ( ) and loss ( ).
His latest, about the systematic killing of Osage Nation members for their oil-rich land in the 1920s, is in many ways far outside Scorsese's own experience. But as a story of trust and betrayal 鈥� the film is centered on the loving yet treacherous relationship between Mollie Kyle (Lily Gladstone), a member of a larger Osage family, and Ernest Burkhart (Leonardo DiCaprio), a WWI veteran who comes to work for his corrupt uncle (Robert De Niro) 鈥� it鈥檚 a profoundly personal film that maps some of the themes of Scorsese鈥檚 gangster films onto American history.
More than the back-room dealings of 鈥淐asino,鈥� the bloody rampages of 鈥淕angs of New York鈥� or the financial swindling of 鈥淭he Wolf of Wall Street,鈥� 鈥淜illers of the Flower Moon鈥� is the story of a crime wave. It鈥檚 a disturbingly insidious one, where greed and violence infiltrate the most intimate relationships 鈥� a genocide in the home. All of which, to Scorsese, harkens back to the tough guys and the weak-willed go-alongs he witnessed in his childhood growing up on Elizabeth Street in New York.
鈥淭hat鈥檚 been my whole life, dealing with who we are,鈥� says Scorsese. 鈥淚 found that this story lent itself to that exploration further.鈥�
鈥淜illers of the Flower Moon,鈥� a $200-million, 206-minute epic produced by Apple that's in theaters Friday, is an audacious big swing by Scorsese to continue his kind of ambitious, personal filmmaking on the largest scale at a time when such grand, big-screen statements are a rarity.
Scorsese considers 鈥淜illers of the Flower Moon鈥� 鈥渁n internal spectacle." The Oklahoma-set film, adapted from , might be called his first Western. But while developing Grann鈥檚 book, which chronicles the Osage murders and the birth of the FBI, Scorsese came to the realization that centering the film on federal investigator Tom White was a familiar a type of Western.
鈥淚 realized: 鈥榊ou don鈥檛 do that. Your Westerns are the Westerns you saw in the late 鈥�40s and early 鈥�50s, that鈥檚 it. Peckinpah finished that. 鈥榃ild Bunch,鈥� that鈥檚 the end. Now they鈥檙e different," he says. "It represented a certain time in who we were as a nation and a certain time in the world 鈥� and the end of the studio system. It was a genre. That folklore is gone.鈥�
Scorsese, after conversations with Leonardo DiCaprio, pivoted to the story of Ernest and Mollie and a perspective closer to Osage Nation. Consultations with the tribe continued and expanded to include accurately capturing language, traditional clothing and customs.
鈥淚t鈥檚 historical that Indigenous Peoples can tell their story at this level. That鈥檚 never happened before as far as I know,鈥� says Geoffrey Standing Bear, Principal Chief of Osage Nation. 鈥淚t took somebody who could know that we鈥檝e been betrayed for hundreds of years. He wrote a story about betrayal of trust.鈥�
鈥淜illers of the Flower Moon鈥� for Scorsese grew out of a period of reflection and reevaluation during the pandemic. COVID-19, he says, was 鈥渁 gamechanger." For a filmmaker whose time is so intensely scheduled, the break was in some ways a relief, and it allowed him a chance to reconsider what he wants to dedicate himself to. For him, preparing a film is a meditative process.
鈥淚 don鈥檛 use a computer because I tried a couple times and I got very distracted. I get distracted as it is,鈥� Scorsese says. 鈥淚鈥檝e got films, I鈥檝e got books, I鈥檝e got people. I鈥檝e only begun this year to read emails. Emails, they scare me. It says 鈥楥C鈥� and there are a thousand names. Who are these people?鈥�
Scorsese is laughing when he says this, surely aware that he鈥檚 playing up his image as a member of the old guard. (A moment later he adds that voicemail 鈥渋s interesting to do at times.鈥�) Yet he鈥檚 also keen enough with technology to and make cameos in
Scorsese has for years been the preeminent conscience of cinema, passionately arguing for the place of personal filmmaking in an era of moviegoing where films can be devalued as 鈥渃ontent,鈥� and big-screen vision can be shrunk down on streaming platforms.
鈥淚鈥檓 trying to keep alive the sense that cinema is an artform,鈥� Scorsese says. 鈥淭he next generation may not see it that way because as children and younger people, they鈥檙e exposed to films that are wonderful entertainment, beautifully made, but are purely diversionary. I think cinema can enrich your life.鈥�
鈥淎s I鈥檓 leaving, I鈥檓 trying to say: Remember, this can really be something beautiful in your life.鈥�
That mission includes spearheading extensive restoration work with the along with a regular output of . Scorsese and his longtime editor Thelma Schoonmaker are currently producing a documentary on
Cinema, he says, may be the preeminent 20th century artform, but something else will belong to the 21st century. Now, Scorsese says, 鈥渢he visual image could be done by anything by anybody anytime anywhere.鈥�
鈥淭he possibilities are infinite on all levels. And that鈥檚 exciting,鈥� Scorsese says. 鈥淏ut at the same time, the more choices, the more difficult it is.鈥�
The pressure of time is weighing more heavily on Scorsese, too. He has, he鈥檚 said, maybe two more feature films left in him. Currently in the mix are an adaptation of Grann鈥檚 latest book, 鈥� and an adaptation of Marilynne Robinson鈥檚 鈥淗ome.鈥�
鈥淗e鈥檚 uncompromising. He just does what he feels he really wants to look into,鈥� says Rodrigo Prieto, Scorsese鈥檚 cinematographer on 鈥淔lower Moon,鈥� as well as his last three feature films.
鈥淵ou can feel that it鈥檚 a personal exploration of his own psyche," adds Prieto. "In doing that, he allows growth for everybody, in a way, to really look into these characters who might be doing things we might find very objectionable. I can鈥檛 think of many other filmmakers who attempt at such a level of empathy and understanding.鈥�
Yet Scorsese says he often feels like he鈥檚 in a race to accomplish what he can with the time he has left. Increasingly, he's prioritizing what鈥檚 worth it. Some things are easier for him to give up.
鈥淲ould I like to do more? Yeah. Would I like to go to everybody鈥檚 parties and dinner parties and things? Yeah, but you know what? I think I know enough people,鈥� Scorsese says with a laugh. 鈥淲ould I like to go see the ancient Greek ruins? Yes. Go back to Sicily? Yes. Go back to Naples again? Yes. North Africa? Yes. But I don鈥檛 have to.鈥�
Time for Scorsese may be waning but curiosity is as abundant as ever. Recent reading for him includes a new translation of Alessandro Manzoni鈥檚 鈥淭he Betrothed.鈥� Some old favorites he can鈥檛 help but keep revisiting. 鈥淥ut of the Past鈥� 鈥� a movie he first saw as 6-year-old 鈥� he watched again a few weeks ago. (鈥淲henever it鈥檚 on, I have to stop and watch it.鈥�) Vittorio De Sica鈥檚 鈥淕olden Naples鈥� was another recent rewatch.
鈥淚f I鈥檓 curious about something, I think I鈥檒l find a way 鈥� if I hold out, if I hold up 鈥� to try to make something about it on film,鈥� he says. 鈥淢y curiosity is still there.鈥�
So too is his continued astonishment at cinema and its capacity to transfix. Sometimes, Scorsese can hardly believe it. The other day he watched 1945 horror film 鈥淭he Isle of the Dead,鈥� with Boris Karloff.
鈥淩eally? How many more times am I going to see that?鈥� Scorsese says, laughing at himself. 鈥淚t鈥檚 their looks and their faces and the way (Karloff) moves. When I first saw it as a child, a young teenager, I was terrified by the film and the silences of it. The sense of contamination. I still get stuck on it."
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Jake Coyle, The Associated Press
